We got everything out with no major challenges.
There are some tricks to getting the TT and TC
cover out. The bellhousing came out without chopping anything. We lowered the
front of the TT far below the flywheel, which allowed us to get to the rear
upper TT bolts by using LONG extensions. It worked. The TC cover removal was
hampered by clearance issues for 2 of the 6 Allen's that hold it on. We needed
to cut down a hex key and use some of Dave A's ideas, but eventually those bolts
were out and the TC cover came off. Unfortunately it looks like you really must
use a press to get the old TC bearings out. I'm used to pounding or pulling old
bearings out, but that doesn't look advisable in this case. So, that was it for
the day. TT alone would have been out and in today. The TC bearings add some
time due to the 2 obstructed bolts and the need to use a press on the bearings.
Removing the bellhousing instead of cutting its crosspiece adds about an hour to
the job. The crosspiece appears nonessential, so I don't blame people for
Yes, make a cradle for moving it forward/back only 1".
The 4 speed automatic is in Volume 3. Look at:
WSM, Vol 3, page 37-130 thru 37-130c.
Where they show a bearing puller used to remove the bearing from the drive flange. I used the shown lower piece of a similar HFT puller to hold the bearing, but used a shop press to do the pushing.
I recently overhauled the transmission on my S4, so after seeing those photos, one thing that came to mind for me, was you could actually do a complete transmission overhaul without removing the transmission from the car. But that wouldn't be too practical or very easy.
On the converter seals. Don't go there. There are no converter shaft seal (wheel bearing type seal) or primary pump seal (flat gasket) leaks on this car's transmission.
WSM, also calls for positioning the transmission in the vertical position, while removing/installing the converter casing. That would allow the torque converter to rest on it's thrust bearing. One point that you probably already noticed, is that there are no alignment pins for the drive flange to torque converter bolts.
Since your not going to do this converter casing reassembly with it in the vertical position, you should tighten all six bolts bolts by hand first, then tighten them by torque wrench. That will require rotating the torque converter and should pull everything back into alignment. You could check the installed torque converter by hand to see if there's any bearing slop, but I'll bet you don't find much if any.
The tranny is tilted at such an angle that the front of the TT was well below the flywheel during removal, so shoving the new shaft into the rear coupling is simply a matter of positioning and some brute force, perhaps drawing it in with long bolts if needed. The front end of the shaft better clear the flywheel when we swing it back up. If not, we will just loosen the flywheel bolts so the flywheel can be tilted to give more clearance.
We don't have the shims/clip/bushing yet - they are coming from Germany. My understanding from the WSM is that the shims are set to hold the flexplate 0.3mm from the flywheel surface. So, with the flexplate loose, we will install too many shims so that the flexplate is held much further away from the flywheel, so the distance is measureable easily, figure how much excess clearance there is and slide the plate back and remove that amount of shims, then bolt the flexplate to the flywheel. I don't think you need to do all those X= A-B+0.3 measurements. Just measure the unbolted flexplate as I describe or just use a 0.3mm feeler gauge before you bolt the flexplate down.
Doing all the measurements with things apart like you have them will not be very easy......you are right on top of the program in doing it by trial and error. I can get you very close to start with.
Yes, the WSM does actually want the flexplate preloaded to the rear of the car with the shims in place by .3mm. Note that this is with the torque tube shaft pulled all the way forward so that the rear bolt bottoms out in the rear flexplate assembly and then that bolt gets torqued. Porsche definitely did not the flexplate to ever get the chance to flex forward! I set up all of the ones I do at "zero"....or as close to that as possible. You will find that the "ears" on the front flexplate usually have a fair amount of runout and can be moved very easily. Make sure the front flexplate is as straight as possible....you can check it with a straight edge while it is out. Many flexplates get so distorted that one can never get them straight and need to be replaced. Mark Anderson still has a good stock of used, straight flexplates.....in case you need one.
Almost every late car that we have done this way has taken 7-900 234 117 02 shims (1mm) and 1-900 234 116 02 shim (.5mm).....plus or minus the small shim. I keep all the shims, collars, and snap rings in stock, if you guys get needy and tired of waiting for Germany to deliver......I don't know how you ordered them.
You need to trust me on this: You will not like putting that snap ring onto the end of the shaft more than once......it is not a "user friendly" job......and that is understated.
The torque converter can be removed and installed with the transmission on a horizontal plane in the car. I install torque converters in transmissions sitting on my work bench every day. Here is the Technique I use.
Carefully and gently slide the converter onto the input shaft and stator, hold the converter pilot with one hand to support the Weight, with the other hand grab one of the mounting pads and spin the converter, at the same time gently push in with the pilot hand, use this technique until the converter is seated.
As to the front seal, there is a lot of cyber space misinformation, 95% of the” front seal leaks” from the bell housing,
Is not a direct cause of the FRONT SEAL, it’s the pump rubber O ring that leaks, the pump has to come out
To install the torque converter flange bearings, you need a press, and follow the instructions of the shop manual.
Steve Cattaneo www.mastertechtrans.com
I had to run off and do an errand soon after you left, and, frankly, I was tired. So, we got everything except the heatshields and exhaust back on. Might get some time tomorrow afternoon if the Easter plans are not too involved.
Another savings of this procedure is no draining of the trans and removal of lines and hoses. The shifter cable end was popped off and its bracket unbolted from the trans to allow for rear sliding of the trans, but everything else stayed intact.
As this was a new adventure, we did have a few mishaps...like forgetting to put the upper rear TT bolts back in , but we were able to get them in w/o removing the bellhousing or TT.
Having a chance to do this on Matt's car will make this far easier when it comes time for me to do my TT.
So, we should have the final pieces back on soon, maybe tomorrow. We've established you can do the TT & TC bearings w/o removing the rear suspension and tranny. I was certain we could do it when I heard about all the cut up bellhousings JimB sees. Why would anyone cut the rear crossmember on the bellhousing (that traps the TT from coming down) unless they were taking out the TT? Of course, that is no proof they succeeded. I knew the bellhousing did not need to be cut, although removing the bellhousing probably added over 2 hours to the job. I may cut the crossmember next time.
Also, we did show the very long older model TT shaft will JUST BARELY clear the flywheel rim, IF you jack the front of the motor, which tilts the flywheel forward at the bottom rim. Once it clears the rim, the motor can go back to normal position. No need to unbolt the flywheel.
We have a lot to document about this procedure should others want to try it.
Greg was right about the circlip, although I can see if we had had a little longer pair of bits, we would have gotten it. Later for that.
We can install the clip and test shim amount much easier BEFORE we slide the tranny and TT forward. Do that, then bolt the TT to the bellhousing, pulling things togther, measure. If we need to change the shim amount, we would loosen the bolts and slide the tranny back again. Even though it's only about an inch, it would make access much easier and the process of removing the four bolts and sliding the tranny and TT back and forth is quick and easy. Jesus, I feel like an idiot now. We could have installed the shims and circlip before we even swung the TT front end back up. What a no-brainer.
You might want to consider loosening/removing the clamps that hold the shift and kickdown cable on the torque tube before you pull it back.....they tend to not be very "streatchy". The kickdown cable may move with the whole assembly, but it will not be happy unless you detach it from the throttle bellcrank assembly on the intake manifold. You might also be able to disconnect the shift cable from the transmission shift lever in the rear and put the shifter in the middle.....but it may not be enough. I'd remove the clamps and disconnect the cables, just to make sure.......they are not fun to replace if they get damaged.
BTW---How'd you guy like that 6mm bolt (10mm head) that holds the kickdown cable housing onto the rear bell housing? Pretty handy to get to in order to start the threads........thank God for 1/4" drive swivel sockets!
We removed the large hose clamps that hold these cables to the top of the TT when we moved it. We left them loose on resinstallation until things get finalized. No problem. BTW, the shifter cable is not held by these clamps. It runs in the foam above the TT. The clamps hold the kickdown and vacuum. So, I think you can leave everything clamped as you slide the TT and tranny back and forth as long as the kickdown and vacuum are free at the front.
That kickdown bracket is one of the things that stops most people from getting the bellhousing down. We popped the kickdown cable end off and unclipped the cable sheath from the throttle quadrant, totally freeing the front end of the cable. We left the bellhousing bracket alone and lowered the bellhousing. Once you solve the geometry problem of getting the bellhousing past the flywheel and dropped down, the kickdown bracket is right in front of you and easy to deal with.
The key is sliding the tranny back as far as it will go (get parking brake cables out of the way) and a little jacking of the motor. When you detach the TT from motor, the motor tilts up in the back and closes up the space between the bellhousing and the firewall. Jacking the front of the motor fixes this for both removal and re-installation of the bellhousing. Still some jostling to do, but the bellhousing is completely removable intact.
Oh, and we found the TT shaft slid easily with no huffing back into the receiver on the TC cover. Just took good alignment and a few taps with a deadblow at the other end, not hard enough to upset anything, along with support and pushing at the TC end. That is a 2 to 3-man part of the job.
The area at the back of the bellhousing (to the left) in this photo, enclosed in red brackets, is the piece Jim and Greg say is often chopped out, undoubtedly to allow the TT shaft to drop through the bellhousing, either to replace the flexplate/clamp assembly or the TT.
In order for us to more easily slide the clamp and flexplate back, the front ears, also shown bracketed in red, could be cut. The ears are used in MT cars, but not AT. Ignore the yellow text, there for another purpose.
Note: The clamp will still not slide back any further even with the ears removed since it runs out of spline. So, the TT & tranny must be losened and slid back too. This is still much easier than unbolting the bellhousing due to the inaccessibility of the upper bellhousing bolts.
you can choose to leave the automatic transmission and everything that is attached in place. It can be done quite easily.
- undo the bolts for the rear cross member (aluminum)
- undo the bolts which hold the tube at the front side
- undo transmission mounts and lower the tranny with all a little on a garage hydraulic jack
- push the tranny with tube a little backwards (or remove (grind off) the small bridge in the housing that blocks the tube from lowering)
- if you decided to push the tranny back: turn the tube downwards at front so that you can reach the rear bolts
- undo the clamp that holds the shaft to the tranny
- undo the 4 bolts that hold the tube to the tranny
- take off the 20kg+ tube and shaft
- replace bearings, mind the plastic rings that hold the bearing
- consider to replace the bearings at the transmission front and renew the seal.
- re-assemble in reverse way.