Can this be dangerous? I am willing to do buffing and
polishing by hand, but won't the "pro" shops be able to do a good job? Any
info is
greatly appreciated. The "pros" buff cars with orbital buffers because it is faster and
they can make more money by turning more cars, NOT because it is better for your paint. The entire point of adding polish and wax to your car is to add moisture & nutrients back into the paint - buffers take away the moisture by heat buildup. I'd recommend that you never buff your car for any reason. If the paint is so bad that hand rubbing it won't bring it back then paint it.
Brian
======
Hmmm,
Let's be very clear about something ..... "polishing" paint (or
anything, by
hand, or otherwise) removes paint/material, period. How much depends on the
aggressiveness of the polish, time spent over a given area, even the
roughness of the cloth. This becomes an issue even with clear coated cars.
Clear coats are there to add shine/depth to a flat/semi-flat base (color)
coat, and to provide UV protection to same. This is were it gets dicey .....
since most factory paint jobs are only about 0.005" thick (including
primers, sealers, color, and clear) this means your clear coat is only about
0.001-0.003" thick. The more you remove, the sooner the UV damage, and the
chalking/fading begins. Sorry Brian, I'm not saying this to be
argumentative, but paint is not alive. It does not "eat", absorb, or
otherwise consume "nutrients". The best that can be done is to add a
layer
of wax (extra protection for the clear coat) to the surface. All paints
continue to out-gas solvents over time. These cannot be replaced. Any
product that claims to penetrate into the paint, that actually does, is
harmful to the paint. Once a paint is cured it is not designed to
"absorb"
anything. To do so means that the paint has been softened/impregnated with
some type of solvent. This is the basis on which some of the
"miracle" products work ..... they soften/melt the paint and allow it
to
"flow out" a bit. Unfortunately, this also removes a good deal of
paint and
weakens the UV protection it offers. When someone "buffs" scratches
out of a
paint job, they are essentially removing the surrounding paint to a depth
equal to the depth of the scratch, viola, the scratch is gone ! While it is
fairly easy to make paint shine by sanding/buffing/polishing (or whatever
you want to call it) ultimately reduces the life of the paint in
proportion
to the amount of UV protection removed. No free lunch. Now, "one-step"
paints (acrylic enamels, or other non-clear coat types) are another story.
When you polish those, you get color on your polish cloth. You can polish
these over and over and over until you reach the primer, then it's time to
repaint.
Best regards,
Dave
=================
<<Let's be very clear about something ..... "polishing" paint
(or anything,
by hand, or otherwise) removes paint/material, period.>>
Dave,
The only time I've ever seen a polish such as P21S, Zymol, etc. remove paint
is when the paint is badly sun damaged. I polished my black 87 S4 every
other time I washed it (about 2X per week) for over 8 years and never
removed paint and never had a problem with "thinning" the paint.
<<Clear coats are there to add shine/depth to a flat/semi-flat base
(color)
coat, and to provide UV protection to same. This is were it gets dicey .....
since most factory paint jobs are only about 0.005" thick (including
primers, sealers, color, and clear) this means your clear coat is only about
0.001-0.003" thick. The more you remove, the sooner the UV damage, and the
chalking/fading begins. Sorry Brian, I'm not saying this to be
argumentative, but paint is not alive. It does not "eat", absorb, or
otherwise consume "nutrients". The best that can be done is to add a
layer
of wax (extra protection for the clear coat) to the surface.>>
I know that paint isn't "alive," but a painted surface is like your
skin.
Look at both under a microscope and they look like a mountain range. When
you set your hand out in the sun it will eventually dry out, crack and be
damaged by the sun. This is the reason for hand lotion. Same with
wax.
You set two red cars out in the sun for a week and the one with wax will
retain color, shine and resist fading and cracking much better than an
unwaxed/unpolished car.
<<All paints continue to out-gas solvents over time. These cannot be
replaced. Any product that claims to penetrate into the paint, that actually
does, is harmful to the paint. Once a paint is cured it is not designed to
"absorb" anything.>>
I've never used anything that actually penetrates the paint, or even claims
to - maybe what I referred to as
adding oils, etc. to the paint is really simply adding a protective coating
of carnuba wax to the clearcoat (which is unpigmented paint). I still
absolutely do not recommend buffing for any reason though.
<<When someone "buffs" scratches out of a paint job, they are
essentially
removing the surrounding paint to a depth equal to the depth of the scratch,
viola, the scratch is gone !>>
True - the surface scratches I referred to was from dust, chamois, etc., not
scratches IN the paint.
<<While it is fairly easy to make paint shine by sanding/buffing/polishing
(or whatever you want to call it) ultimately reduces the life of the paint
in proportion to the amount of UV protection removed.>>
So how do you keep surface scratches off of your cars?
Brian
======
First I wouldn't be too concerned with damaging your paint with an orbital
buffer. You would have to be very careless to damage your paint and it won't be
because you spent too much time in one place. Typically the damage done by an RO
is usually because the operator didn't pay attention to the power cord and
rubbed it all over the paint, or maybe they left the RO running and caught the
edge (backing plate) on the paint or trim. RO's don't generate enough heat to
damage or burn through paint unless you spends some serious time and force.
Here are some steps I use when I am polishing a new to me car.....
Here are the proper steps in order:
1. Wash car thoroughly, leave it wet and move immediately to step 2.
2. Clay the paint from top to bottom (in that order), use diluted car wash soap
or spray detailer as a lubricant for the clay otherwise you will leave clay
residue on the paint.
3. Wash car again to remove clay residue and dry thoroughly.
4. Wipe paint down one more time with a Microfiber cloth and quick detailer
5. Use a product like Meguiars #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish to perform paint
correction (essentially removes fine scratches in the paint) This will not
remove deep scratches or acid rain marks. I use the RO with a polishing pad on
it's second highest speed with enough pressure to compress the pad to 2/3's of
it's original height. I only do one panel at a time and will work the polish
into the paint until it's nearly gone, this minimizes hazing on the paint.
6. Wipe down paint again to remove any residue with Microfiber and quick
detailer, do this after polishing each panel.
7. Use a hand polish like S100 Shine Enhancing Paint Cleanser (available at
Harley Dealers) or something similar like 3M Imperial hand glaze or Meguiars #9
Swirl Remover. I use the RO with a softer finishing pad on it's second highest
speed with enough pressure to compress the pad to 2/3's of it's original height.
I only do one panel at a time and will work the polish into the paint until it's
nearly gone.
8. Wipe down paint again to remove residue with Microfiber and quick detailer
9. Finish with your favorite wax. I personally like S100 Carnauba but NXT Tech
or Meguiars #26 are also great products.
Porter cable makes a good polisher which is inexpensive model 7424. Making sure
you get the hook and loop (Velcro) backing plate so you can easily connect the
buffing pads.
__________________
Afshin
1990 GT, Marine Blue / Linen / Rootwood (The Beverly Hills Car)